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Dave's in depth PCT discussion and protocol [SERMS] (PART 3)

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  • Dave's in depth PCT discussion and protocol [SERMS] (PART 3)

    Continued from Part 2 where you can find here: https://bs-forum.com/forum/forum/other-products/149980-dave-s-in-depth-pct-discussion-and-protocol-hcg-part-2

    Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators (SERM)s.

    What is the role of a SERM during PCT? HCG’s effect is centralized at the Leydig cells of the testicles and stimulates hormone function at the testicular level, but does not reverse hypothalamic-pituitary suppression (in the brain). For this reason, hCG use alone is not advised for HPTA restoration. The theory is that after hCG has provided the push start, now it is the SERM’s role to complete the ignition and take us home. Estradiol (estrogen) is a key objective for HPTA restoration since it plays a critical role in HPTA regulation. This can be done by blocking the receptor through the action of a SERM (or reducing the available estradiol by impeding its production from testosterone with an aromatise inhibitor (AI)). In either event, the effect at the CNS level results in a significant increase of gonadotropin levels. In turn, LH stimulates Leydig cells in the testes, and this leads to increased local testosterone production. That probably sounds like a lot of gibberish to many of you reading, but the key take home point here is that the SERM’s role is to remind the HPTA axis of what to do at the hypothalamic-pituitary level. As mentioned, an AI can be used for the same purpose but I advise against AI use for first line treatment as I have noticed the chance of side effects to be greater and also the effectiveness to be lesser than SERMs. Context is important as always though. I have used an AI in place of SERMs where a user is particularly sensitive to a given SERM, where there is a drug contraindication with a SERM and another medication they are using, or simply if they do not have access to a SERM.

    There are a number of SERMs one could utilise in a PCT but the most commonly sourced SERMs in Australia go by the brand names Clomid (Clomiphene citrate) and Nolva (Tamoxifen citrate). If on a budget or you are sensitive to a particular SERM, you may choose one or the other. In my experience, I have seen for both Nolva and Clomid together to work best. Once again, this further reinforces my “leave no stone unturned” methodology. It surprises me how many men do not value the restoration of their natural testosterone and “half-ass” their PCT. I mean, it is only your very manhood at stake? Onward to the next question:


    How much Clomid and Nolva to take, when to take it and for how long to take it?
    Some of the original inventors of the PCT theory would suggest a much higher dose than what I now prescribe. Over time, I noticed that high doses of SERMS, especially Clomid, were contributing to negative mood changes in users. When I looked at the data, I was never sure how these original PCT theorisers arrived at those higher doses? What I found was that because Clomid came in a 50 mg pill, 50 mg seemed like a good idea. Same with Nolva. 20 mg of Nolva seemed like a good idea. These SERMs were originally invented for women, not men. Instead of the 50 mg Clomid twice daily and 20 mg Nolva twice daily, I decided to start at half of those doses and more recently, even less. Of course, the only way for me to figure this out was the trial and error of 1000 + users. When posed with the challenge of restoring AAS users that seemed to be traumatised by their last PCT experience where high doses of SERMs were used—I did not have much of a choice but to experiment with lower doses. What I discovered was the same success without the severity of side effects. I now recommend to start your SERM therapy on the last day of your hCG dose so that again, we can overlap these medications in the hopes of maintaining physiological levels of testosterone throughout the entirety of the PCT.

    I now recommend a dose of 25 mg of Clomid once daily and 10-20 mg of Nolva once daily. I have never understood the twice daily dosing for these SERMs either? They both have a half-life of approximately a week, so to dose twice daily makes little sense.


    For how long these SERMs should be dosed will depend on the user’s cycle and cycle history. If a user cycles infrequently, then I will suggest 4 weeks of SERM therapy. If a user is over the age of 40, has been using AAS longer than 6 months at a time or I suspect there may be previous HPTA dysfunction, then I will suggest 2-3 months of SERM therapy. After the SERM therapy, D-Day approaches. As I mentioned, the half-life of these SERMS is long, so at least 3 weeks should pass before following up with blood work to see if the HPTA has been restored. After further investigation with regards to the pharmacokinetics of these two SERMs, I would go as far as saying that 4 + weeks after SERM use is an even better schedule before following up with blood work. To check blood work before this would be an inaccurate ruling. In other texts I have wrote about what markers to examine to see if the HPTA is restored, but essentially if all sex hormones are within reference ranges, then you have successfully restored your HPTA and your PCT has been a success. If the user’s PCT follow up blood work shows as unsuccessful or partially successful, then I will recommend a second reboot with an extended period of SERM use, upwards of 6 months. Today’s blog carried on a little longer than I expected. I am over-caffeinated and Cannabis stimulated so my fingers were on a mission today. None the less, a question answered as concisely as I could without leaving anything important out. At least I don’t think I did? Let me know if I have.

    That's all folks. Until next time, David.















  • #2
    It has been nearly 5 weeks now since I started using Nolvadex at 20mg a day 10 days after my last shot of "1 ml Test E + 1/2 ml Tren E" after blasting n cruising for eight months, I did 40mg front loading for four days and then 20mg till today, but I noticed that i'm horny more than usual and the wife couldn't keep up with me, hopefully is Nolvadex that I'm taking and not Cials lol, with so many UGL at the moment you never know what you're taking, and another thing I noticed is that I'm getting stronger in the Gym more than when I was pinning during the entire eight months.

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    • #3
      The wife has some HCG left over sitting in the fridge after a IVF procedure, I injected 150 iu for two days before realizing it wasn't HCG that I'm using but follitropin alfa, silly me lol.

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      • #4
        This was a bloody good write up mate, on par with what i have discovered/self taught over the years, which is good because it means i’m on the right track if this info is coming from a bloke like yourself.

        now i’ll be able to direct people here instead of writing a spiel every time someone asks about PCT

        my only suggestion with multi part articles like this - maybe it might be beneficial to do the original post, and then the follow up (part 2/3 etc) as the first inmediate comments because believe it or not, some people are to lazy to jump from thread to thread.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by DEEZNUTS View Post
          This was a bloody good write up mate, on par with what i have discovered/self taught over the years, which is good because it means i’m on the right track if this info is coming from a bloke like yourself.

          now i’ll be able to direct people here instead of writing a spiel every time someone asks about PCT

          my only suggestion with multi part articles like this - maybe it might be beneficial to do the original post, and then the follow up (part 2/3 etc) as the first inmediate comments because believe it or not, some people are to lazy to jump from thread to thread.
          Thanks DEEZNUTS. I agree, people can be that lazy. I guess the way I see it—if people are interested they will discover and read the entire text. These are the only people I am trying to reach.

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          • #6
            Great read thanks heaps Dave!

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